September 2013 rumored list leak

Wynn wrote:

Hieritics are an OTK deck though, wehy would they be wanting to increase the power of an OTK deck when they seem to want it getting slowed down.

Hieratics are not an OTK deck. They're an aggro deck in the same vein as Six Sams, really, but aggro =/= OTK. When REDMD was unlimited, then yes they were an OTK deck because they just Xyz spammed the Super Cannon Gustaph Max guy, which is what I hated about them. But now they're a lot slower, even with 3 Seal of Convocation. They swarm the field like crazy but once they run out of resources, that's it. They're not able to OTK anymore.

Wynn wrote:

And No I still don't think your getting my point, I am suggesting that e dragons were even calcuating the different times and styles stronger then inzektors. Which is a pivital point I am attmpting to make.
I suck at search but either way this might make an interesting point, there was a world tournment right before inzektors were hit right? What were the top 32 of that world? Compare it to the more recent world top 32. .

True, they and Prophecies were the only ones to make it to the Top 32, but that doesn't mean there wasn't the same kind of gap between Tier 1 decks last year and Tier 1 decks this year. I mean, yeah there were 4 top decks instead of 2... but that's still not a very big number. Now, however, we're expecting a much larger pool of top decks, which means a more creative tournament setting.

Wynn wrote:

And yes that is my style, though I am not saying you should join, rather just stating it :)Always looking to be stronger

But I'm a fun player, you said so yourself

Wynn wrote:

Ok Diva has is a bit different, see Diva can only make rank 2, which is far weaker. In a synchro build it can make obviously more, but not much without more field presence to begin with. Diva in mermails as mentioned mermails can still make decent use of diva lol. It is like taking about TGU,  saying ya woud hit TGU cuz of DW makes no sense, DW has other TGU target so they are uneffected by the hit. But Dino bunny somthing that relays on TGU insant rank 3 is effected by it engine be disrupted. lol. And Actually I am personally fine with 3 TGU and Sangan, lol the engine in no way bothered me, and I rarely used it. lol.

But you agree that the potential is still there, in the right deck. That's the unfortunate thing I mentioned before... it doesn't matter how many fun decks were using a card; all it takes is one deck to break it, and it becomes a problem. It's just as I said with cards like Rescue Cat and Super Rejuv, you can make balanced decks with them, and you can make broken decks with them. The balanced decks will suffer because of the broken decks. And lol... there was a time I splashed Tour Guide engine into everything I could, even Dragons XD

Wynn wrote:

It isn't that synchro 8s are prblems but diva + foolish burial could be a 2 lv 8 synchro on the first turn, that is a fast and explosive play.

And there are plenty of other combos like that as well. Dragon Ravine with Malicious in hand, for example.

Destiny Dragunities actually seems like a fun concept tbh. Shit-ton of draw power with D-Draw + Cards of Consonance. I may build it this weekend

Wynn wrote:

Trish to 1 Hell Ya
Gorz to 2, nervious, but willing to see.
Bestiari to 2, less nervious, curious to see
Grand mole to 2, don't agree or like, but meh, can't expect every card to me what I would pick lol.
chaos sorc, to 2 don't care, wasn't he at 3 not to long ago? lol
Reasoning to 3, also don't care lol dont think I ever used it. lol
Mirror force to 3, probaly not going to use more then 2, so meh, don't care. I like that some decks can triple up on it.
ARA to 3 Love it. :)new decks to be experting with :)like Dark Gaia, Demise chaos rabbit Sworm

Interesting... Well so you are afraid of Gorz to 2! And Chaos Sorc was limited in anticipation for Prophecies. Then they realized he was not all that needed.

ΛΔ wrote:

Number 16: Shock Master: as mentioned, not broken... but still beign a lockout card doesn't do it any favors. not to mention its effect is just too good. by which I mean unless you have the space why would you run ANY other 3-material generic rank-4? that's where its biggest problem lies and why I'm honestly fine with seeing it gone

Yes. Ya see, Wynn? I'm not the only one who thinks this

ΛΔ wrote:

Pot of Avarice: also sad to see it go, but there's a huge problem with decks that can abuse it being way too abusive with it. hopefully we get some other Pot replacements like we have with Duality/Duplicity that are far more balanced down the line. though on a related note, with it being hit I could see Gusto decks making more use of Daigusto Emeral than before

Depends, actually. Not every Gusto deck can run Rank 4s.

ΛΔ wrote:

Solemn Judgment: another case of killing deck creativity, goodbye

But you gotta admit this WAS the most skillful card to be banned this time around.

ΛΔ wrote:

Ultimate Offering: honestly not really sure whats going on here... too good for a format with reduced backrow removal/negation maybe?

Ever since Gadgets first came out, this card has been used as an OTK card. Became meta relevant with Xyzs.

Hippocampus wrote:

Wynn wrote:

Hieritics are an OTK deck though, wehy would they be wanting to increase the power of an OTK deck when they seem to want it getting slowed down.

Hieratics are not an OTK deck. They're an aggro deck in the same vein as Six Sams, really, but aggro =/= OTK. When REDMD was unlimited, then yes they were an OTK deck because they just Xyz spammed the Super Cannon Gustaph Max guy, which is what I hated about them. But now they're a lot slower, even with 3 Seal of Convocation. They swarm the field like crazy but once they run out of resources, that's it. They're not able to OTK anymore.

Wynn wrote:

And No I still don't think your getting my point, I am suggesting that e dragons were even calcuating the different times and styles stronger then inzektors. Which is a pivital point I am attmpting to make.
I suck at search but either way this might make an interesting point, there was a world tournment right before inzektors were hit right? What were the top 32 of that world? Compare it to the more recent world top 32. .

True, they and Prophecies were the only ones to make it to the Top 32, but that doesn't mean there wasn't the same kind of gap between Tier 1 decks last year and Tier 1 decks this year. I mean, yeah there were 4 top decks instead of 2... but that's still not a very big number. Now, however, we're expecting a much larger pool of top decks, which means a more creative tournament setting.

Wynn wrote:

And yes that is my style, though I am not saying you should join, rather just stating it :)Always looking to be stronger

But I'm a fun player, you said so yourself

Wynn wrote:

Ok Diva has is a bit different, see Diva can only make rank 2, which is far weaker. In a synchro build it can make obviously more, but not much without more field presence to begin with. Diva in mermails as mentioned mermails can still make decent use of diva lol. It is like taking about TGU,  saying ya woud hit TGU cuz of DW makes no sense, DW has other TGU target so they are uneffected by the hit. But Dino bunny somthing that relays on TGU insant rank 3 is effected by it engine be disrupted. lol. And Actually I am personally fine with 3 TGU and Sangan, lol the engine in no way bothered me, and I rarely used it. lol.

But you agree that the potential is still there, in the right deck. That's the unfortunate thing I mentioned before... it doesn't matter how many fun decks were using a card; all it takes is one deck to break it, and it becomes a problem. It's just as I said with cards like Rescue Cat and Super Rejuv, you can make balanced decks with them, and you can make broken decks with them. The balanced decks will suffer because of the broken decks. And lol... there was a time I splashed Tour Guide engine into everything I could, even Dragons XD

Wynn wrote:

It isn't that synchro 8s are prblems but diva + foolish burial could be a 2 lv 8 synchro on the first turn, that is a fast and explosive play.

And there are plenty of other combos like that as well. Dragon Ravine with Malicious in hand, for example.

Destiny Dragunities actually seems like a fun concept tbh. Shit-ton of draw power with D-Draw + Cards of Consonance. I may build it this weekend

Wynn wrote:

Trish to 1 Hell Ya
Gorz to 2, nervious, but willing to see.
Bestiari to 2, less nervious, curious to see
Grand mole to 2, don't agree or like, but meh, can't expect every card to me what I would pick lol.
chaos sorc, to 2 don't care, wasn't he at 3 not to long ago? lol
Reasoning to 3, also don't care lol dont think I ever used it. lol
Mirror force to 3, probaly not going to use more then 2, so meh, don't care. I like that some decks can triple up on it.
ARA to 3 Love it. :)new decks to be experting with :)like Dark Gaia, Demise chaos rabbit Sworm

Interesting... Well so you are afraid of Gorz to 2! And Chaos Sorc was limited in anticipation for Prophecies. Then they realized he was not all that needed.

ΛΔ wrote:

Number 16: Shock Master: as mentioned, not broken... but still beign a lockout card doesn't do it any favors. not to mention its effect is just too good. by which I mean unless you have the space why would you run ANY other 3-material generic rank-4? that's where its biggest problem lies and why I'm honestly fine with seeing it gone

Yes. Ya see, Wynn? I'm not the only one who thinks this

ΛΔ wrote:

Pot of Avarice: also sad to see it go, but there's a huge problem with decks that can abuse it being way too abusive with it. hopefully we get some other Pot replacements like we have with Duality/Duplicity that are far more balanced down the line. though on a related note, with it being hit I could see Gusto decks making more use of Daigusto Emeral than before

Depends, actually. Not every Gusto deck can run Rank 4s.

ΛΔ wrote:

Solemn Judgment: another case of killing deck creativity, goodbye

But you gotta admit this WAS the most skillful card to be banned this time around.

ΛΔ wrote:

Ultimate Offering: honestly not really sure whats going on here... too good for a format with reduced backrow removal/negation maybe?

Ever since Gadgets first came out, this card has been used as an OTK card. Became meta relevant with Xyzs.

lol Hiertics aren't OTK deck? lol The main deck goal of hiertic player is to OTK or wait til they can. I guess they can play slower if the person using them wants to but that is like saying just cuz a player desides not to OTK the deck isn't an OTK deck? lol. Yes they got slower without red eyes, but that doesn't change what the decks general purpose is. lol.

I tried looking it up http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/World_Championship_2012 I count 10 different decks in the top 26. The difference between 10 and 2 is decently high, but even if it was only 4 or 5 vs 2 I am still saying that is the difference I am talking about. That is the difference between a deck that didn't need a hit right away, and a deck that did.

I am also a fun player, but I take pride in raising the power of my fun decks.

Ok a card having potiental is a "good" thing. Ya can say all you want mermails broke diva, but I akin that to hitting TGU cuz of DW. The simple fact is mermails don't need diva and there are easy ways to hit them without touching a fun card. So if you think your engine of diva is soo grand, what deck broke it?
lol not to be mean but let me get this straight, creative fun player, teching in generic engine of TGU in to everything, cuz ya could? this is creative? I rarely use generic engines for anything lol. The only time I would use TGu is when I had a valid target for her, other then herself. Cuz then she brought something to the table. lol.

How does mal + ravine equal 2 lv8 synchros? And to point out another thing ya dislike diva for being a egnine? What do ya call mal at 3? lol.

Afriad? I said nervious lol different terms are different.

I never said ya were alone, I only backed up my opinion of a card "should" exsist at the highest number it "can" exsist at. And I think shock wasn't a problem, and if he was, I think he was fine at 1. lol

Though if I am right about my diva got hit to allow mal to 3, I would rather have my diva back, though I am not against seeing what 3 mal can do.
3 mal, and 2 mezuki, this I am curious to see.

Wynn wrote:

lol Hiertics aren't OTK deck? lol The main deck goal of hiertic player is to OTK or wait til they can. I guess they can play slower if the person using them wants to but that is like saying just cuz a player desides not to OTK the deck isn't an OTK deck? lol. Yes they got slower without red eyes, but that doesn't change what the decks general purpose is. lol.

I mean, every time I've played against a Hieratic deck post September 2012, they've never been able to OTK me. They seem to rely on different tech strategies to gain good field control, which can differ depending on the person running them, instead of constantly spamming Atums and REDMDs. But many have had trouble against a lot of my decks, so I dunno... this is just based on personal experiences though.

Wynn wrote:

I tried looking it up http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/World_Championship_2012 I count 10 different decks in the top 26. The difference between 10 and 2 is decently high, but even if it was only 4 or 5 vs 2 I am still saying that is the difference I am talking about. That is the difference between a deck that didn't need a hit right away, and a deck that did.

Umm, not to be that guy, but...

"With the exclusion of TCG and OCG exclusive cards the overall event was favored by the OCG metagame, hence the dominance and win of "Inzektor" Decks, a widely played and a very effective Deck in the OCG. Initially Chaos Dragons Decks were played amongst many players during the event but without the TCG exclusive cards such as "Tour Guide From the Underworld" the Deck could not retain its fast paced capability as it does in the TCG. During the top cut "Inzektor" Deck were played by every European player and every Japanese player, with the exception of Yohei Arimura, who used a "Skill Drain" Deck, which is effective against "Inzektor"."

So, yeah, they all entered with their favorite decks, but chose to all play Inzektors during the final rounds? Not much diversity if ya ask me lol

Wynn wrote:

Ok a card having potiental is a "good" thing. Ya can say all you want mermails broke diva, but I akin that to hitting TGU cuz of DW. The simple fact is mermails don't need diva and there are easy ways to hit them without touching a fun card. So if you think your engine of diva is soo grand, what deck broke it?

Honestly, I didn't think Diva was broken until Mermails came out. That was definitely a good reason for her hype, because now she could actually target other good cards instead of just a copy of herself, which was what usually happened before. And I still definitely don't think it was Malicious's fault for breaking Diva. It could be one reason but I don't think that was the main thing, since like we said it can be used in a few different decks. Was anyone using the Diva engine in D-Heroes when he was at 2?

Wynn wrote:

lol not to be mean but let me get this straight, creative fun player, teching in generic engine of TGU in to everything, cuz ya could? this is creative? I rarely use generic engines for anything lol. The only time I would use TGu is when I had a valid target for her, other then herself. Cuz then she brought something to the table. lol.

Lol you never called me out for using generic staples... why call me out for Tour Guide? Frankly, she was just a great card... her ability to search Sangan could really help out a lot of my fun decks. I put her in my Dark Plants and Fabled World for sure, but I also teched the engine in multiple Exodia builds, as well as Djinn Heralds, Rescue Rabbit, Gustos, Resonators (which she's awesome in btw), Clown Control, D.D. Stun, Bazoo Return, and even Dark Scorpions lol. With all those decks being made and tried out, how can you not call that creative? I even tried teching her in my Frognarchs, but she actually didn't do that well, so I took her out. There were some decks she didn't work in, even with 3 of her + Sangan.

Wynn wrote:

How does mal + ravine equal 2 lv8 synchros? And to point out another thing ya dislike diva for being a egnine? What do ya call mal at 3? lol.

Not exactly 2 Level 8s, but the amount of field swarm is more or less the same.

Start with Ravine, Malicious, and Dragunity Dux in opening hand. Activate Ravine, discard Malicious and dump Phalanx. Normal Summon Dux and Special Phalanx (I assume you know how Dragunities work). Sync for Dragunity Vajrayana (or whatever his name is), which allows you to equip Phalanx to it. Special Summon Phalanx, and Special Summon Malicious to sync for a Level 8. Now summon the 3rd Malicious and Xyz with Vajrayana to make M7, detaching Mal to return Dux so you can do the whole damn thing again next turn. Facing only 1 Bottomless and 1 Warning makes this even better XD
And I already said I was having my doubts about Mal.

Wynn wrote:

Afriad? I said nervious lol different terms are different.

Lol well you know what I mean

Wynn wrote:

Though if I am right about my diva got hit to allow mal to 3, I would rather have my diva back, though I am not against seeing what 3 mal can do.
3 mal, and 2 mezuki, this I am curious to see.

Lol I love how you call it "your" Diva... I don't even remember seeing you use it lol. Except maybe in Diva Gustos XD

Hippocampus wrote:

Wynn wrote:

lol Hiertics aren't OTK deck? lol The main deck goal of hiertic player is to OTK or wait til they can. I guess they can play slower if the person using them wants to but that is like saying just cuz a player desides not to OTK the deck isn't an OTK deck? lol. Yes they got slower without red eyes, but that doesn't change what the decks general purpose is. lol.

I mean, every time I've played against a Hieratic deck post September 2012, they've never been able to OTK me. They seem to rely on different tech strategies to gain good field control, which can differ depending on the person running them, instead of constantly spamming Atums and REDMDs. But many have had trouble against a lot of my decks, so I dunno... this is just based on personal experiences though.

Wynn wrote:

I tried looking it up http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/World_Championship_2012 I count 10 different decks in the top 26. The difference between 10 and 2 is decently high, but even if it was only 4 or 5 vs 2 I am still saying that is the difference I am talking about. That is the difference between a deck that didn't need a hit right away, and a deck that did.

Umm, not to be that guy, but...

"With the exclusion of TCG and OCG exclusive cards the overall event was favored by the OCG metagame, hence the dominance and win of "Inzektor" Decks, a widely played and a very effective Deck in the OCG. Initially Chaos Dragons Decks were played amongst many players during the event but without the TCG exclusive cards such as "Tour Guide From the Underworld" the Deck could not retain its fast paced capability as it does in the TCG. During the top cut "Inzektor" Deck were played by every European player and every Japanese player, with the exception of Yohei Arimura, who used a "Skill Drain" Deck, which is effective against "Inzektor"."

So, yeah, they all entered with their favorite decks, but chose to all play Inzektors during the final rounds? Not much diversity if ya ask me lol

Wynn wrote:

Ok a card having potiental is a "good" thing. Ya can say all you want mermails broke diva, but I akin that to hitting TGU cuz of DW. The simple fact is mermails don't need diva and there are easy ways to hit them without touching a fun card. So if you think your engine of diva is soo grand, what deck broke it?

Honestly, I didn't think Diva was broken until Mermails came out. That was definitely a good reason for her hype, because now she could actually target other good cards instead of just a copy of herself, which was what usually happened before. And I still definitely don't think it was Malicious's fault for breaking Diva. It could be one reason but I don't think that was the main thing, since like we said it can be used in a few different decks. Was anyone using the Diva engine in D-Heroes when he was at 2?

Wynn wrote:

lol not to be mean but let me get this straight, creative fun player, teching in generic engine of TGU in to everything, cuz ya could? this is creative? I rarely use generic engines for anything lol. The only time I would use TGu is when I had a valid target for her, other then herself. Cuz then she brought something to the table. lol.

Lol you never called me out for using generic staples... why call me out for Tour Guide? Frankly, she was just a great card... her ability to search Sangan could really help out a lot of my fun decks. I put her in my Dark Plants and Fabled World for sure, but I also teched the engine in multiple Exodia builds, as well as Djinn Heralds, Rescue Rabbit, Gustos, Resonators (which she's awesome in btw), Clown Control, D.D. Stun, Bazoo Return, and even Dark Scorpions lol. With all those decks being made and tried out, how can you not call that creative? I even tried teching her in my Frognarchs, but she actually didn't do that well, so I took her out. There were some decks she didn't work in, even with 3 of her + Sangan.

Wynn wrote:

How does mal + ravine equal 2 lv8 synchros? And to point out another thing ya dislike diva for being a egnine? What do ya call mal at 3? lol.

Not exactly 2 Level 8s, but the amount of field swarm is more or less the same.

Start with Ravine, Malicious, and Dragunity Dux in opening hand. Activate Ravine, discard Malicious and dump Phalanx. Normal Summon Dux and Special Phalanx (I assume you know how Dragunities work). Sync for Dragunity Vajrayana (or whatever his name is), which allows you to equip Phalanx to it. Special Summon Phalanx, and Special Summon Malicious to sync for a Level 8. Now summon the 3rd Malicious and Xyz with Vajrayana to make M7, detaching Mal to return Dux so you can do the whole damn thing again next turn. Facing only 1 Bottomless and 1 Warning makes this even better XD
And I already said I was having my doubts about Mal.

Wynn wrote:

Afriad? I said nervious lol different terms are different.

Lol well you know what I mean

Wynn wrote:

Though if I am right about my diva got hit to allow mal to 3, I would rather have my diva back, though I am not against seeing what 3 mal can do.
3 mal, and 2 mezuki, this I am curious to see.

Lol I love how you call it "your" Diva... I don't even remember seeing you use it lol. Except maybe in Diva Gustos XD

Ok, cuz Inzektors were the prefered pick, yet I still read that the top 26 had 10 different decks competting. The top 32 had 2 decks competing, even if at the top 4 of either had only 1 or 2 or if the top 8 had 1 or 2, doesn't matter to my point, this is why I went with the top 32. Does 2 vs 10 not bring any sort of difference to you?

I sort of disagree, I think mermails were strong reguardless of diva lol.
Well 2 mal defeats the point of teching in diva lol

Well I am not busting ya for using good cards just pointing out the confict ya are making here.
Liking heavy, avarice, and judgement gone cuz generic cards all decks could use as staples. Yet uses TGU in everything lol. I find that funny.
Don't get me wrong I agree how any generic staples could be considered anti creative, and obviously there is a line. lol All decks usually use dark hole with good reason. lol
But TGU I don't think qualifies and thinking it as being able to seems anti creative to me, but that is just me. lol.

Wynn wrote:

Ok, cuz Inzektors were the prefered pick, yet I still read that the top 26 had 10 different decks competting. The top 32 had 2 decks competing, even if at the top 4 of either had only 1 or 2 or if the top 8 had 1 or 2, doesn't matter to my point, this is why I went with the top 32. Does 2 vs 10 not bring any sort of difference to you?

It does. But just because the top 26 had 10 different decks, doesn't mean that there were still 10 different decks in the top 16. I was just saying that your article probably wasn't the best one to use, since it actually gave info that helped MY case XD

Wynn wrote:

I sort of disagree, I think mermails were strong reguardless of diva lol.

They were, I agree. But Diva made them even stronger.

Wynn wrote:

Well I am not busting ya for using good cards just pointing out the confict ya are making here.
Liking heavy, avarice, and judgement gone cuz generic cards all decks could use as staples. Yet uses TGU in everything lol. I find that funny.
Don't get me wrong I agree how any generic staples could be considered anti creative, and obviously there is a line. lol All decks usually use dark hole with good reason. lol
But TGU I don't think qualifies and thinking it as being able to seems anti creative to me, but that is just me. lol.

But I didn't use her engine in everything. I just said that there were some decks I didn't think she fit in, so I took her out. And when Sangan was banned, I took her out of even more things, because I was mainly using Sangan in those decks, which is just as much of a staple as Avarice.

And there should be no conflict btw. You questioned my creativity and I justified it. Making creative decks overall is more important than not using generic cards; if I didn't think that, I wouldn't have put Monster Reborn, Heavy, or all these other cards into my decks. And don't forget, while I may not agree with a given banlist, I still want to play by it, because those are important rules to the game, as I told Milla Lyna. And if I can use said splashable cards, then I will, and if I can't then I won't. The important thing is where I'm using them, and that's where I try to be creative.

In reflection I realize I may have been a bit harsh at TCG list.
When I was young I never played competively so seeing such butchery, espically when OCG made a fine list without such calls got me a bit pasionate.
I still think many hits weren't called for.
Shock, diva, M7, Heavy (reborn and avarice too but I can understand the well enough not to complain)
I understand some of these hits were probably cuz of mal to 3 which I don't really agree with but I do like things coming off the list so there is that. (still prefer diva, M7 and statos back in its place)

I still like OCG better <3